Comments on: The money-go-round: how often does the government charge itself for its own data? http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/2006/03/the-money-go-round-how-often-does-the-government-charge-itself-for-its-own-data/ A Guardian Technology campaign for free public access to non-personal data about the UK and its citizens Sun, 14 Mar 2010 05:10:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Paul anderson http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/2006/03/the-money-go-round-how-often-does-the-government-charge-itself-for-its-own-data/comment-page-1/#comment-47219 Paul anderson Wed, 01 Aug 2007 08:04:19 +0000 http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/?p=16#comment-47219 This has so far caused most problems with map-related data, postcode tables etc, but there are other areas where the current position is against the public. This has so far caused most problems with map-related data, postcode tables etc, but there are other areas where the current position is against the public.

]]> By: Aled Greenhalgh http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/2006/03/the-money-go-round-how-often-does-the-government-charge-itself-for-its-own-data/comment-page-1/#comment-154 Aled Greenhalgh Sat, 01 Apr 2006 09:15:21 +0000 http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/?p=16#comment-154 This is just an internal market, as used by most organisations over a certain size. If, say, the DETR wanted to use a meeting room in a DTI office or to use some Environment Agency equipment then surely they'd be expected to pay for it? This is just an internal market, as used by most organisations over a certain size. If, say, the DETR wanted to use a meeting room in a DTI office or to use some Environment Agency equipment then surely they’d be expected to pay for it?

]]> By: Anonymous guy http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/2006/03/the-money-go-round-how-often-does-the-government-charge-itself-for-its-own-data/comment-page-1/#comment-125 Anonymous guy Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:59:54 +0000 http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/?p=16#comment-125 I could have written an email just like that. :-( I've been trying for months to license OS data for use on a gov project. The license costs are high and even the cost for obtaining the media (CDs) is a rip off. The concept of government agencies charging each other for data is crazy and counter productive. The only people who win are the OS employees - the people who lose out are the tax payers and the rest of the British public who would be using the application. I'm seriously looking at using Google Maps for this gov project. I love the irony, but it will be a very sad decision. I could have written an email just like that. :-( I’ve been trying for months to license OS data for use on a gov project. The license costs are high and even the cost for obtaining the media (CDs) is a rip off. The concept of government agencies charging each other for data is crazy and counter productive. The only people who win are the OS employees – the people who lose out are the tax payers and the rest of the British public who would be using the application. I’m seriously looking at using Google Maps for this gov project. I love the irony, but it will be a very sad decision.

]]> By: Charles Arthur http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/2006/03/the-money-go-round-how-often-does-the-government-charge-itself-for-its-own-data/comment-page-1/#comment-110 Charles Arthur Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:43:29 +0000 http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/?p=16#comment-110 Mike - thanks. I think. To address Step2's point, surely the point is that if the government thinks it doesn't work then it can revert to the trading fund model. But I'm off now to have a look at the government organisations' reports, and in particular their costs of sales and marketing. Mike – thanks. I think.

To address Step2’s point, surely the point is that if the government thinks it doesn’t work then it can revert to the trading fund model.

But I’m off now to have a look at the government organisations’ reports, and in particular their costs of sales and marketing.

]]> By: Mike Clark http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/2006/03/the-money-go-round-how-often-does-the-government-charge-itself-for-its-own-data/comment-page-1/#comment-109 Mike Clark Sun, 26 Mar 2006 16:21:20 +0000 http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/?p=16#comment-109 Step2, Thank goodness you've arrived ! That's the first sensible remark I have seen in all this hoo-ha, including the readable but regrettably only superficially well-researched and well-informed Guardian articles. Step2,

Thank goodness you’ve arrived ! That’s the first sensible remark I have seen in all this hoo-ha, including the readable but regrettably only superficially well-researched and well-informed Guardian articles.

]]> By: Nicholas Verge http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/2006/03/the-money-go-round-how-often-does-the-government-charge-itself-for-its-own-data/comment-page-1/#comment-104 Nicholas Verge Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:30:37 +0000 http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/?p=16#comment-104 Step2, The point you raise assumes that up-to-date mapping and geospatial information are a luxury that the UK can do without in times of economic recession. This is (IMCO at least) is very miguided way fo looking at the issue. Having this kind of data is as necessary as having functioning polica and judicial system, emergency services, health servcie or transport system. Accurate, up to date mapping for a modern nation is indespensible, an investment and economic and social necessesity, not a luxury. And lets be frank about this... The annual investment necessary for the OS to map the nation to a high standard is not overly great compared to the annual budgets of other government cost centres. It is at most a few £100M's pa. There was a time when the OS was part of the Ministry of Defence and its operations financed out of its enormous annual budget. Something similar should perhaps happen in the future, although perhaps not as part of the MoD. Instead, perhaps the mapping side of OS operations could come under the control of the Department of Environment and the demographic information collection side under the control of the Office for National Statistics/Home Office Step2,

The point you raise assumes that up-to-date mapping and geospatial information are a luxury that the UK can do without in times of economic recession. This is (IMCO at least) is very miguided way fo looking at the issue.

Having this kind of data is as necessary as having functioning polica and judicial system, emergency services, health servcie or transport system. Accurate, up to date mapping for a modern nation is indespensible, an investment and economic and social necessesity, not a luxury.

And lets be frank about this…

The annual investment necessary for the OS to map the nation to a high standard is not overly great compared to the annual budgets of other government cost centres. It is at most a few £100M’s pa.

There was a time when the OS was part of the Ministry of Defence and its operations financed out of its enormous annual budget. Something similar should perhaps happen in the future, although perhaps not as part of the MoD. Instead, perhaps the mapping side of OS operations could come under the control of the Department of Environment and the demographic information collection side under the control of the Office for National Statistics/Home Office

]]> By: Step2 http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/2006/03/the-money-go-round-how-often-does-the-government-charge-itself-for-its-own-data/comment-page-1/#comment-103 Step2 Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:40:11 +0000 http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/?p=16#comment-103 Amongst all the comments posted up on this campaign, I'm not sure that I've seen much attention given to exactly what people propose as a realistic and pragmatic alternative. The idea of central government footing the entire bill would certainly stop the money-go-round and encourage innovation and economic growth. But can anyone reassure me that it is sustainable in the longer term? Do we trust our politicians to recognise the importance of the data we all hold so dear and continue to fund these institutions while nurses are being laid off? If the money gets cut, which bit of the country doesn't get mapped? The one that the "private sector" can most reasonably pay for? Oh dear, aren't we back where we started? Amongst all the comments posted up on this campaign, I’m not sure that I’ve seen much attention given to exactly what people propose as a realistic and pragmatic alternative. The idea of central government footing the entire bill would certainly stop the money-go-round and encourage innovation and economic growth. But can anyone reassure me that it is sustainable in the longer term? Do we trust our politicians to recognise the importance of the data we all hold so dear and continue to fund these institutions while nurses are being laid off? If the money gets cut, which bit of the country doesn’t get mapped? The one that the “private sector” can most reasonably pay for? Oh dear, aren’t we back where we started?

]]> By: Nicholas Verge http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/2006/03/the-money-go-round-how-often-does-the-government-charge-itself-for-its-own-data/comment-page-1/#comment-102 Nicholas Verge Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:37:06 +0000 http://www.freeourdata.org.uk/blog/?p=16#comment-102 In any other sector such a financial merrygoround would raise suspicions of creative accounting and money laundering. May be this is what is going on to disguise the financing of these government-owned quasi-commercial organisations by taxpayers, to avoid this financing appearing is in effect a government subsidy and allow the these organisiations to claim they are financially independant and trading as if they were private sector businesses. Hmmm... In any other sector such a financial merrygoround would raise suspicions of creative accounting and money laundering.

May be this is what is going on to disguise the financing of these government-owned quasi-commercial organisations by taxpayers, to avoid this financing appearing is in effect a government subsidy and allow the these organisiations to claim they are financially independant and trading as if they were private sector businesses.

Hmmm…

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